Bipolar Support Forums To Share and Support One Another

Borderline Suspicions

Talk about ADD/ADHD, Self-Harm, PTSD, Personality Disorders, Social Phobia, GAD, Epilepsy, Migraines, Substance Abuse, Autism Spectrum Disorders, OCD, Physical/Emotional Abuse

by Cracked » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:18 am

Hi friends!

Ever since my mental health troubles have become pronounced enough to warrant therapy and attention and all that (like 4 years now) I've gone back and forth about borderline personality disorder. Sometimes I'm like "oh my gosh I've never seen anything that describes me so perfectly" but then other times I realize it doesn't affect me every single day the way personality disorders do. But recently I had a huge breakthrough in therapy about my sense of worthlessness, and how much of my personality is a fragile shell I've built around myself to make it seem (to myself and others) like I am a good, worthwhile human being. But any time anyone is mad at me, or I mess up, that shell cracks and I'm reminded that I am fundamentally broken and bad. Which sounds very much like BPD. But I'm able to build that shell, and a lot of times I believe in the shell, maybe even believe in some kind of core that is worthwhile. And I lack a lot of the symptoms. Childhood trauma/abuse is a common theme among people with BPD, and I grew up in a very loving household (although in my breakthrough we did discover that my sensitivity made some things that are not inherently traumatic a bit traumatic for me). Suicide is frequently a concern for me, but not all the time, and not usually in response to the small triggers often cited by those with BPD. And the other symptoms I do relate to (splitting, lack of emotional object permanence, abandonment issues, fear of being manipulative) don't seem as extreme as what many people with BPD experience.

I understand from my research that many neurotypical people relate to BPD because less extreme/less consistent versions of the symptoms are relatively normal, and I know it's really offensive to claim the BPD experience as your own when you don't have it. I'm just not sure where I fall. I feel like my symptoms are problematic enough to deserve attention, but not sure they're consistent/extreme enough to warrant a diagnosis. Is it possible to have BPD traits, like you can with other disorders? I have OCD traits, but not full-blown OCD, and that seems to be an acceptable status among my therapists, myself, and people who do have OCD. I guess I just don't want to be an asshole and claim an experience that isn't mine, but I also know that when people tell me "I don't want to go to therapy because I don't even have a disorder, I'm just having a hard time, I don't want to offend people with real problems," I always find it ridiculous and want my friends to get all the support they need, regardless of diagnosis. I just don't know if that sentiment is the same in this instance.

Does anyone on here have bipolar and borderline? From my understanding, it's pretty typical for them to be comorbid. Or do other people relate to BPD symptoms but aren't sure where they fall, diagnosis-wise? I'd just love to chat with people about it.
Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
User avatar
Cracked
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:41 pm

by AvantGarde » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:26 am

Is it possible to have BPD traits, like you can with other disorders?


Yes, definitely. I have some, but not enough to warrant a diagnosis and have become pretty mild over the years.

Earlier this month me and my tdoc discussed the possibility of me having it, given my life's history but we concluded that we can't judge me in the present day from me in the past, and also my pdoc veemently disagreed. But for a while there I could see myself in all symptoms :lol:

A friend once told me we all have the same blueprints in life, some more than others in some areas. Like jars, we all have the jar labeled borderline in our heads with those traits and symptoms, some have it all the way up, some just a few crackers in the bottom, others none at all but still have the jar, you see? Like everyone has moods, we with BP just have them over the top intense ;)

I do think that even if you don't have BPD per se, you can and should get treatment for the traits that are interfering with your happiness and life in general. :)
Genetically evolved chicken at your service

My therapist says I don't have crazy eyes

Never surrender your freedom of being to the veridict of those who are strangers to your inner workings
User avatar
AvantGarde
Moderator
 
Posts: 6599
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:01 am

by Cracked » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:20 am

That jar metaphor makes a lot of sense! I also brought it up with my tdoc a few times in the past and she also seemed to disagree pretty strongly. The level in my jar changes a lot, and that lack of consistency seems to me to indicate that I don't have the full-blown disorder, just maybe some of those normal being-a-person traits get out of hand at times? I just had a rough experience over the weekend that demonstrated that my jar is pretty full right now, so I'm back on the diagnosis exploration expedition, lol.
Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
User avatar
Cracked
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:41 pm

by AvantGarde » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:33 am

Ahah, that makes sense. Mine was due to substance abuse basically. Do you drink alcohol? If you do, maybe try to go a few weeks without it, see if it makes you feel better. If you don't, nevermind :D

I get it with the expedition, I'm circling dissociative disorders at the moment, but I think my dissociation is from PTSD.
Genetically evolved chicken at your service

My therapist says I don't have crazy eyes

Never surrender your freedom of being to the veridict of those who are strangers to your inner workings
User avatar
AvantGarde
Moderator
 
Posts: 6599
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:01 am

by Cracked » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:28 pm

I do drink, but not a lot. I loooove being drunk because I feel like a normal freaking human for once, but I recognize that that's a dangerous way of thinking. It got the better of me for a while in college, but I'm on the straight and narrow now, just a few drinks now and then. I'm never sure what causes those BPD-esque symptoms to flare up. That might be something interesting to explore in therapy.
And oh man, dissociation is bizarre. I think most of my experiences there have been pretty mild, or have really been maladaptive daydreaming (hello OCD tendencies) so I'm sorry that's plaguing you at the moment. I know the med-go-round is hellish, but so is the diagnosis-go-round. Is your tdoc being helpful in the quest?
Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
User avatar
Cracked
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:41 pm

by Pancake » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:02 pm

Hey Cracked,

Have you seen the other personality disorders under the DSM-5? I've been tagged with cluster C traits, totally true, and I can also relate to BPD and OCD somewhat, but I fit better under this stuff.

Btw, the disclaimer at the bottom here says that everyone exhibits these personality traits sometimes, and just having those traits isn't enough to label you.

httpsww.mentalhelp.net/articles/dsm-5-the-ten-personality-disorders-cluster-c/
Totally sane mermaid-siren of Vegemiteland
User avatar
Pancake
Moderator
 
Posts: 3246
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:45 pm
Location: Terror Australis

by Cracked » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:59 pm

Hi Pancake! I have looked into Cluster C, but I just don't feel that any of those are accurate for me. For Avoidant, I usually enjoy social situations, and while I have an underlying fear that everyone hates me, it isn't constantly on my mind in the way that it seems to be for people with AVPD. As for Dependent, I like being independent. I'm incredibly clingy, that's true, but that's because I need constant validation from someone, not because I need their approval or something. I actually super hate it when my husband implies that I should have asked him about something before doing it. Like, let me be me, dude. And I know OCPD should apply to me, I am HELLA obsessive, but the personality disorder focuses on an obsession with rules and such, and I just don't have that kind of obsession. I guess I have been told by several people that I have very strict rules people have to follow to be a "good friend" and such, but when it comes to outside rules and regulations, I feel like I fall in a pretty normal realm. I guess I feel like I have bits and pieces of some of these that come together most accurately in BPD. The belief that others hate me, the clinginess, the black and white thinking. But I'm interested, what C traits are you dealing with? (if you wanna share, no pressure)
Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
User avatar
Cracked
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:41 pm

by Pancake » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:08 pm

Stuff that - among other things - contributes to a sneaking suspicion that I'd like to be assessed for autism.

Like you, I don't really fit perfectly into any of the categories.

Avoidant - 50/50, imposter-style syndrome at work that has caused problems for me, but am currently on top of. Not so much fear of rejection etc, but not social at all.

Dependent: not really. Conflict-avoiding, not much else. Is there and "Independent" personality disorder? I'll take that one.

OCPD: rules, regs, where's the line, very black and white, definitely a perfectionist but I have double standards: they only apply to me. Orderliness... Variable. Like, there's 4 piles of washing that haven't been folded and chaos everywhere (which I hate, but here I am avoiding it), and the pegs live out on the clothesline, but they have to live on the clothesline in a particular arrangement, and when the clothes get hung out to dry, each person gets their own section. (Saves sorting later, right? It's almost a game...)

Ok, there's my dirty laundry. :P
I guess my thinking would be that different characteristics would manifest differently in different people, and not necessarily apply to *everything*...?

I've been doing a lot of reading on BPD recently as an Aussie NFP has been raising awareness. They have some good info, and make it much less scary than it has historically been seen as.

Whatever you think, you sound like you have some really good insight into what triggers (wrong word?) your reactions.
Totally sane mermaid-siren of Vegemiteland
User avatar
Pancake
Moderator
 
Posts: 3246
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:45 pm
Location: Terror Australis

by Cracked » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:43 pm

Lol, the dirty laundry thing :lol: :lol: :lol:

And triggered is a fine word, although I think my insight is weakest when it comes to what causes these problematic reactions in me. For all my efforts to predict and understand them, my moods seem to come and go capriciously (the bp) or are clearly the result of something happening, but are wayyyy out of proportion (the (maybe) bpd). I'm probably reading too much into the BPD, but there's something comforting about thinking that what I'm feeling isn't normal, that I shouldn't have to have a two-hour long panic attack because I forgot to text my husband the information on when and where to meet me at a wedding that I'm in and he's upset. I shouldn't be questioning my relationship of 6 years when he does something that upsets me. I should just get to be happy, because he is funny and kind and loves me, and dammit, I should be allowed to believe him when he says that.

I've always kind of held back on the BPD thing because it's characterized by rocky personal relationships, and I just married the first man I ever dated, I was just the matron of honor for my best friend, who I've known for 12 years, and I made a strong group of friends in college who I still see and talk to on a pretty regular basis. But I think I've also kind of shoved down all the BPD things that have sprung up in those relationships. I don't tell my therapist or my husband about the times that he makes me upset and I wonder if we should be together, because that's AWFUL. I love him and I don't want him thinking I don't (to which my brain whispers, except what if you don't??) and I don't want my therapist thinking I'm dramatic or that he's abusive or something (because only people in abusive relationships think this way, right? I mean why else would I have such an extreme reaction to being upset with him, and vice versa?). I had similar experiences with my best friend, and some with my college friends. I've just always kept it under wraps because it sounded crazy and dramatic (found out in therapy the other day that "dramatic" is like a really tough word for me, I use it on myself as shorthand for "you pathetic motherfucking attention whore" basically). I usually think of myself as so self-aware, I didn't realize that there's a difference between being aware that there is a problem related with being dramatic and relationships and sensitivity, and actually acknowledging and DEALING with that problem. My tdoc has disagreed with me on the BPD idea before, and she might again, but at least this time I'll be fully honest (maybe. I want to be. But those things are going to be very hard to say out loud).

Also, yeah I can see our C traits coming together in very different ways, which is fascinating. Diagnosis really is an incredibly weird art, isn't it? I want it to be a nice, neat science, but alas. Is it possible for you to be assessed for autism at some point? Is that a thing your t/pdocs can do? And about the research on BPD, I posted this in a different thread, but I found this great video about "quiet" BPD that was really great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E56S5cWSvuw

Also, I'm sorry my messages are like 10 pages long recently, I'm living alone now and I don't talk to a whole lot of people, so I think my extroversion is exploding onto the internet, lol.
Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
User avatar
Cracked
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:41 pm

by AvantGarde » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:34 pm

Cracked wrote:maladaptive daydreaming (hello OCD tendencies)


:lol: Yep. Tell me about it. I've learned to use it as a step forward in getting unstuck from a loop. But it's way more complicated than that and I just woke up (childhood issues, lots of abuse all the way until my late 20's...).

Cracked wrote:I know the med-go-round is hellish, but so is the diagnosis-go-round. Is your tdoc being helpful in the quest?


She is, very. She's kinda allowing me to take my time in just accepting the "I have a chronic mental illness" thing, doesn't hold back in saying it and is very supportive of my quests of looking things further.

I have to tell you though, you don't seem to have BPD at all, from your interactions here at the board. One thing is that BP and BPD can be very similar, up to the point of no doctor diagnosing BPD during a BP episode. So if you're symptoms come and go, I would say is BP related much more than BPD. But, nevertheless, some say they belong on a diagnosis continuum, so the treatment for BPD should be of help anyway.

You know what I did? I went over to a BPD board and stayed for a while, 2 weeks maybe, just lurking, I couldn't identify myself with it at all... Felt like a fish out of the water.
Genetically evolved chicken at your service

My therapist says I don't have crazy eyes

Never surrender your freedom of being to the veridict of those who are strangers to your inner workings
User avatar
AvantGarde
Moderator
 
Posts: 6599
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:01 am

by Jemane » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:10 am

I broached this topic with my pdoc a few months ago and he was quite adamant that I'm not borderline but have very typical bipolar psychopathology.
You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have.
User avatar
Jemane
 
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:25 am

by Cracked » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:13 am

Jemane, that's interesting, what did he mean by that?? That seems so mysterious, lol. And AG, I might do that, just lurk and see. It's helpful to hear that you don't see those symptoms in me though, an outsider perspective is always helpful, since we tend to get twisted up in our heads.
Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
User avatar
Cracked
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:41 pm

by AvantGarde » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:02 am

Yeah, I know what you mean. I had two groups of people, one that told me I didn't seem BPD at all, the other that told me it made perfect sense. I decided to let the docs decide, to be honest.

Even if I don't see it in you, you might have it anyway, I was just making an observation. Just don't want you to jump the gun like I did, it's no use, just make yourself feel worse, despite the prognosis being good is still hellish and has even worse stigma than BP.

I'm not sure I'm making much sense, I've had a terrible couple of days, was napping :lol:
Genetically evolved chicken at your service

My therapist says I don't have crazy eyes

Never surrender your freedom of being to the veridict of those who are strangers to your inner workings
User avatar
AvantGarde
Moderator
 
Posts: 6599
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:01 am

by Pancake » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:21 pm

Is it possible for you to be assessed for autism at some point?

I hope so, I was going to bring it up last appointment, but time was hijacked by something more urgent.

It won't change anything really, but the why's and how's and figuring out puzzles is a bit of a driver (:
Totally sane mermaid-siren of Vegemiteland
User avatar
Pancake
Moderator
 
Posts: 3246
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:45 pm
Location: Terror Australis


Return to Related Disorders