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Quantum physics, existencialism and psychology.

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by AvantGarde » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:08 am

"There are heights of the soul from which even tragedy ceases to look tragic." Neitzsche

I'm reading on Existencial Psychotherapy today. It's based on the assumption that mental disorders (such as depression and anxiety) arise from these four "basic" internal struggles: fear of death, freedom, isolation and the meaning of life; and that the chemical imbalances are just reactions, that the psyche is much more powerful than what we actually give it credit for.

Yesterday I was studying Jungian psychology and he talked about individualization, on being whole with the Self, and Erich Fromm in one of his books talks about how important it is for us to develop a sense of individualization and not following the majority blindly; and like quantum physics explains, everything is connected, so in light of building brigdes I started questioning how far I'm willing to explore my Psyche and build my life to resolve inside myself those "basic" struggles.

We talked about determinism and our opinions were divisive, some believe everything is predetermined, others believe in absolute free will. I stand somewhere in the middle.

In quantum physics, a particle can interact with another particle at exactly the same time, or be in two places at the same time. I also think the role of quantum physics is much more important to reality, and hence to the individual's answers to these questions.

Here's a question: How do you feel about these internal struggles?

I think with BP we have a very weird relationship with the idea of death, or freedom, of being isolated and with the individual meaning of life, like we talked about in the determinism thread.

I don't have answers to this, or any ideas really. I can say that I have preconceived ideas that were taught to me by psychosis, family, friends, culture, but no personal idea of how these things manifest inside myself and so I would like to explore further.
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by Jemane » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:37 am

Wow, I wish I had studied psychology. So interesting! So much I don't know!

I think you are right that we have have a different view of death. For me death is relief. It means the struggle is over. Even when I am stable I still understand why I feel suicidal when my mood goes low. I get why feel like that.
I don't think I would be very stressed if I were diagnosed with a terminal illness (except to worry about whether I would suffer) as I see death as just another part of life, another stage.
So I don't have a fear of death, a fear of freedom or of isolation but I certainly don't feel like there is much meaning to life.
Maybe that is my quest.
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by AvantGarde » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:47 am

I have a great interest for the great thinkers of mankind, there are two great channels on youtube that talk about them: Academy of Ideas and The School of Life.

Most of my rambles come from watching their videos and then spending the day studying further on what they meant.

I don't study it for curriculum, just for the sake of knowledge. It's very good for the soul, distracts and brings new clarity to our unresolved issues :D

And I don't attribute great meaning to life as well, I really think it's up to the individual.
My relationship with the idea of death was badly misguided by my psychosis, and I'm still struggling with those ideas in my head. My relationship with freedom is also complicated, I'm very co dependent and very independent at the same time. Isolation has been the key to resolving my issues, to be honest. Might change that relationship later on, things always change, but from the 4 struggles I think it's the one I'm most comfortable with. Death being the one I'm the least comfortable with, I really love life. Wish for immortality. :lol:
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by Jemane » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:05 am

Do you mean feeling isolated or resolving your isolation as the key to resolving your issues?

So glad you love life. I only feel like that when I'm hypomanic, yet I feel like I should feel like that as my life is actually pretty amazing. I have so much. I have everything I could need, yet I still struggle to find meaning.
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by AvantGarde » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:10 am

Jemane wrote:Do you mean feeling isolated or resolving your isolation as the key to resolving your issues?


Both actually. I need isolation from people, I deal well with my pets alone. At the same time I'm aware, and treating it in therapy, that I'm a social animal :lol: I need to be social and exchange ideas. I created a good balance already, I think I'm willing to maintain it.

Jemane wrote:So glad you love life. I only feel like that when I'm hypomanic, yet I feel like I should feel like that as my life is actually pretty amazing. I have so much. I have everything I could need, yet I still struggle to find meaning.


I think the idea of hope, that I still have things to attain, goals and objectives, keeps me grounded in that idea. Maybe you feel you already reached it.
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by Jemane » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:19 am

Wow. You've seriously given me one of those aha, lightbulb kind of moments. I think you're right. My lack of meaning comes from having attained all my goals and having achieved all I set out to achieve. So I don't have anything I'm working towards.!im going through the motions. On the outside, I have to say it, my life looks pretty perfect, yet inside I'm up and down like a yoyo and I have no sense of purpose in my life.
Loosing religion also took away my sense of purpose, I know that.
I need to seriously start thinking about striving for new goals to give myself some sort of purpose. Not sure what they are yet. I'll have a think about it.
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by AvantGarde » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:22 am

:D Glad it helped. Small goals is good, your first goal is to find interests :D
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by hal » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:27 am

I came very near to dying a few months ago but mostly didn't know it, because I was unconscious. However, I did have dreams which were numerous and very vivid and unusually coherent. I can still remember them all. The theme was journey and struggle. At one point I had to choose between death and life; at another, I was totally alone in the universe, the ultimate in despair. Outwardly, I am told, I was mostly unresponsive. This lasted about a month, as I pulled out of it gradually. (The conditions that could have caused death were severe sepsis, respiratory failure, and bowel failure. I give thanks to the hospital staff for saving me.)

My response to this experience is mostly detached interest. I don't have any strong feelings about it, just a sense of wonder. I think my emotions were expended in the dreams.
. . . all times I have enjoyed
Greatly, have suffered greatly, both with those
That loved me, and alone.
-- Tennyson
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by AvantGarde » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:16 am

I thought of you and those dreams while watching a documentary today about what happens during human and animal sleep and extreme cases of sleep disturbance, they didn't talk about near death experiences though, it would be interesting to know the scientific research.
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by Blake's Poisontree » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:48 pm

I am not a fan of existencialism, as a determinist I just cannot agree with those sort of theories.

I'm feeling really lost at the moment so my views on on those four subjects are both objective and subjective and changing all the time, which I guess is how it should be. In any case, isolation is a perpetual state of being, freedom is an illusion, death is the end of consciousness, and the meaning of life is an infinite cycle of possibilities.

At the moment, I live in isolation, freedom is non-existent, I long for death and I fear it, there is meaning in everything but it means nothing to me.
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